BlogAugust 15, 2013 1:21 PM ET

The Ocean vs. Summer Slaughter promoters

So, if you have a few minutes and care about stage diving, this may be of interest to you. The Ocean are not happy that they cannot stage dive while the band performs at the Summer Slaughter Tour. As such, they had the following to say:

"what are these stupid 'no jumping into the crowd' rules on a tour which gloats about being the 'most extreme tour of the year', seriously? I don't get it.

"This is the fifth night in a row that we can't go into the crowd because of stupid agency or venue policies. I'm getting bored. Someone tell these dumbfucks that stage diving doesn't kill people, and that stage barriers and 6 foot ditches won't stop us from leaping into the crowd, they just make the leap a little longer and a little more dangerous for everyone.

"Someone also tell them that fans know what to expect when they see The Dillinger Escape Plan or The Ocean live. If you are worried about your make up, don't be in the first row!!!"

Of course, never one to shy away from conflict, Summer Slaughter founder and Sumerian Records honcho Ash Avildsen has responded:

"I'm a bit offended by The Ocean Collective's recent Facebook post jabbing Summer Slaughter and some of the venues that are willing to host it so let me set the record straight.

"Summer Slaughter is called 'The Most Extreme Tour Of The Year' because of the music. It's the only tour that puts 10 national acts who play progressive, extreme music all on one stage inside a club during the summer in North America. It's not called this because of bands doing vintage stage antics.

"Iggy Pop and Jim Morrison were jumping off stages in to the crowd before you guys ever picked up an instrument. Jumping off things at a venue doesn't make you extreme, it makes you dangerous. Sure it's a cool thing to watch if no one gets hurt, who doesn't love eye candy? But the reality is people get injured, paralyzed or in rare cases die from this and therefore certain venues at these capacity levels will not allow it. This is usually because of past lawsuits or ones that are still pending verdicts/settlements.

"It's not the opening band who's going to end up footing the bill for the kid when their parents sue for a million dollars for damages, it's the venue. So next time you start whining about not being allowed to be 'extreme' enough on Summer Slaughter, focus on being appreciative of the opportunity you have been given to play your music in front of thousands of people opening for some other great bands instead. If you still really think your music and live performance simply will not be properly conveyed because you can't jump off shit, then do it where other people don't have to catch you and risk getting hurt.

"Land that move and go back on stage to finish your vocal line. That's extreme. Or maybe you go on tour with Bad Luck 13 Riot Extravaganza and find a new definition for what you consider extreme at a show. I invited you to play because I appreciate your music, so start appreciating the venues and people who are making it possible for you to be here. While you keep taking notes from Dillinger on stage, be sure to take them off stage too. They carry their our own tour/liability insurance. Might want to look in to that bud.

"P.S. Mick Foley getting thrown off the top of a steel cage by The Undertaker at Hell In A Cell and taking a 16 foot fall is far more extreme and just as scripted as your next stage dive."

Likely recognizing that they may have barked up the wrong tree, The Ocean guitarist Robin Staps has now issued the following:

"So our recent Facebook post on stage diving at Summer Slaughter has recently turned into a bit of a drama, as some people have said – or maybe just a healthy discussion of a difficult topic. Ash Avildsen, head of Summer Slaughter tour, has replied to our post this morning, see link below. And here is our reply, once more.

"Ash, we have been enjoying this tour to the max, despite some venue's strict regulations, and we appreciate the opportunity of being here. The point was not to diss the Summer Slaughter tour, which we respect for being a forward-thinking and ground-breaking institution – that's the whole reason why we did it, and we are happy to be part of this not only extreme, but progressive and interesting and diverse lineup. It's been a great time. Firstly, I understand that these 'no jumping into the crowd' rules come from certain venues, and not from Summer Slaughter – because most of the nights, it has not been an issue at all — only in a certain chain of venues (and you know well which ones I am talking about), where policies have been so strict that the local security would not even let band members get back on stage or backstage, after they had jumped into the crowd!!! Excuse me, but I find this a bit pathetic. And again, this was not coming from the Summer Slaughter HQ.

"I do see your point on the risks involved, in theory. In practice, it's really not about justifying jumping off 30 feet balconies at House of Blues, it's not about jumping feet-first into the crowd, with the intention to hurt fans. When you have a light-weight vocalist that communicates with the crowd a lot, and makes them anticipate the jump, the potential risk of injury is about as high as the risk of a guitar player breaking his ankle while stepping on the monitor, or the risk of dying from a heat stroke on a tennis court.

"With this whole discussion (not just here but in general), what I find lacking most of the time is a bit of common sense. We don't want anyone to get hurt, and the people in the first row don't want to get hurt either, but they are aware of being in a higher energy scenario then in the back of the room there (and hence are more alert and cautious and raise their arms when someone jumps). There is a minimal potential risk involved when a crowd gathers to watch a band play, gets excited, and starts moving – just as there is a potential risk involved with playing volley ball, or doing any kind of sports, really. And in the end, that's what a rock 'n roll show is, both for the band, as well as for the majority of the audience: an event of sports.

"Stage diving is a beautiful thing – it's an intense interaction between the crowd and the band. It's the crowd that actually makes it work, for if they cleared out and if there was none to catch the singer, he would face plant on the floor. The fans don't want that, and the momentum of energy unleashed when a 90 pounds singer leaps into the crowd and 20 people raise their arms to catch him is low enough that none will get hurt. We may not have been doing this back in the days when Iggy Pop, one of my biggest idols, did it – but we've been doing it for 12 years too, and noone ever got hurt in any of close to 1000 shows we have played with this band. Just saying."


Post Comment
anonymous 8/15/2013 10:27:51 AM

Randy Blythe need to tell them something about this

anonymous 8/15/2013 10:39:42 AM

Ash just needs to keep his mouth shut and not be a little girl.

anonymous 8/15/2013 10:43:15 AM

Stage diving is beautiful thing LMAO

anonymous 8/15/2013 10:43:54 AM

Daniel Nosek is stoked

anonymous 8/15/2013 10:48:26 AM

the tour/liability insurance line from ash :') lol

anonymous 8/15/2013 10:49:30 AM

Summer Slaughter is about as extreme as a gay pillow fight.

anonymous 8/15/2013 10:52:26 AM

Yeah! I hate little girls!

anonymous 8/15/2013 11:04:49 AM


finncade 8/15/2013 11:12:57 AM

Here's an idea. Just shut the fck up and rock. As a venue owner, I was also threatened to be sued by a parent, when an ass hat vocalist went into the crowd and kicked a 15 year old girl in the face, breaking her nose and cracking two of her teeth. Am I supposed to lose everything I worked for, just so some guy can act like a tough guy? fck no. Wanna be a tough guy? get a 20 foot ladder and stage dive into your drummer's kit.

anonymous 8/15/2013 11:16:49 AM

I will say the venue chain name. House Of Blues. This venue chain has great sound but are a bunch of pussies, sending the security into the pit to break up moshing, keeping a 5 ft gap between the stage and crowd, and their complete lack of respect to the fans and bands who want to express themselves by going absolutely nuts and stage diving.

anonymous 8/15/2013 11:28:58 AM

bad luck 13 name check is priceless.

anonymous 8/15/2013 11:30:34 AM

Ash being a little girl about this? Youre a fcking moron. I wouldnt want some sweaty wannabe badass gay trying to jump at me and expect me to catch him. Get back on stage do what you were paid to do.

anonymous 8/15/2013 11:36:53 AM

Ash has gotten sassy as fck lately. He must have cut himself shaving his eyebrows.

anonymous 8/15/2013 11:39:38 AM

Stage diving is for jerks. Does the crowd actually enjoy it, or is it just for the singer's ego that he gets to be carried around by his "adoring fans." Most of the time, people put up there arms to catch the singer because they really don't want to see a guy get hurt, and they also don't want to get hurt themselves by some douche landing on their heads. The Ocean sucks anyways.

anonymous 8/15/2013 11:47:12 AM

the ocean is a terrible band that tries too hard to be tough. just like the dillinger escape plan... "THIS IS REAL BLOOD!!!"

anonymous 8/15/2013 11:57:34 AM

gayest fcking shit i've ever read.

malachi 8/15/2013 12:07:21 PM

"This is real blood" was not the quote nor what Greg was talking about during that performance, you goddamn ignoramus. And this article cracked me up cause it was bitch-fest turned "tail tucked between legs" story. If The Ocean had any balls whatsoever, they would have countered with, "Ash, get fcked." Pussies.

anonymous 8/15/2013 12:30:52 PM

Yes, in this perfect Utopian band paradise adoring fans could never imagine suing if their feelings got hurt because you didn't play "that one song" they came to hear or some 16 yr's neck got broken from a crowd surfer. This is the real world, jerks sue one another because the coffee was too hot. This scenario plays out 1 of 2 ways - Ryan sucks homeboy from Sumerian's dck and makes right or The Ocean doesn't play big well promoted tours. Ryan, STFU you crybaby.

anonymous 8/15/2013 12:39:53 PM


MeatDelivery2 8/15/2013 12:50:32 PM

I have to take Ash's side on this, because it's the kind of tour where the word EXTREME is a sales pitch. These aren't the days where he would book On Broken Wings and it would get shut down by every cop in Woodbridge. Sad but true.

anonymous 8/15/2013 1:06:05 PM

"So, if you have a few minutes and care about stage diving, this may be of interest to you." I do, I am, and it is!

anonymous 8/15/2013 1:29:29 PM

It's not a world of men. If you can't handle the crowd or pit stay the fck out.

f28r06a42n12k 8/15/2013 2:02:17 PM

I'm sick of Ash feeling the need to address every goddamn comment that is posted on the internet. WHAT'S YOUR OPINION ON THAT, ASH?!?

f28r06a42n12k 8/15/2013 2:09:09 PM

fck you, Ash. I retract my previous statement SOLELY for your mentioning of the first Kaboom! of the week, which was Mick Foley being thrown off that damn cage!

anonymous 8/15/2013 2:25:09 PM

Literally fcking nobody cares. Just more of a reason Ash is a douche-nozzle.

i_talk_shit 8/15/2013 2:39:41 PM

Nobody has heard of "calling each other" to sort out problems? what the fck is that name dropping historically-more-accurate -than-you bullshit? Are you a promoter and business man or a 15 year old kid with a facebook and twitter account?! Everybody grow up for once.

anonymous 8/15/2013 2:52:17 PM

Opening bands should shut up, play, be thankful and not broadcast egotistical reasons for venue owners, promoters and labels not to want to bother with their dramas in the future. What a bunch of short sighted fools. Don't like the rules? get off the stage and let any number of other bands who'd die to be on that stage take your place.

anonymous 8/15/2013 2:53:59 PM

The Ocean is a collective crease. Kill yourselves.Today.

anonymous 8/15/2013 4:59:01 PM

Ronnie Radke is stoked

anonymous 8/15/2013 5:21:30 PM

if you dont like stage diving then dont be near the stage

anonymous 8/15/2013 6:12:17 PM

Scott Vogel is not stoked

anonymous 8/15/2013 6:34:47 PM

Hardcore in 2013 is a joke

anonymous 8/15/2013 6:45:22 PM

Terror still sucks and vogel isn't stoked

iwilladapt 8/15/2013 8:15:18 PM

stage diving is dumb. especially when it's a bunch of 12 year old fans that keep running up and jumping off over and over again. i'm going to pretend to catch you next time and then move out of the way and watch you fall on your stupid face. all that being said- if you can't handle what does on, don't go.

anonymous 8/15/2013 8:26:19 PM

what does on what does on what does on what does on what does on what does on what does on what does on what does on what does on what does on what does on what does on what does on what does on what does on what does on what does on what does on what does on what does on what does on what does on

RickRock 8/15/2013 8:40:40 PM

Props to Ash for mentioning both BL13 and Mick Foley in the same statement. Also, BURNSAUCE.

anonymous 8/15/2013 9:18:15 PM

It hasn't been 'The most extreme tour of the year' for a while now......

tronxtaylor 8/15/2013 10:34:39 PM

Somewhere, Aeon's laughing their asses off at this gayry.

anonymous 8/15/2013 11:15:35 PM

Who the fck is Ryan?

anonymous 8/15/2013 11:55:50 PM

Why do americans always sue each others? Come to Europe and experience the defintion of freedom...

anonymous 8/16/2013 1:40:17 AM


anonymous 8/16/2013 5:28:02 AM

The singer is only 90lbs? Is he like 15?

gorillatriscuits 8/16/2013 9:42:21 AM

Ummm……this is worse then two pre teen butches arguing over how to use a tampon. Internet ruined everything.

iwilladapt 8/16/2013 1:33:29 PM

typo typo typo typo typo typo typo typo typo typo typo typo typo typo typo typo

anonymous 8/16/2013 1:47:37 PM

I saw the singer of Every Time I Die not get caught...he then made the crowd pick him up and put him back on stage...pretty funny stuff

anonymous 8/16/2013 5:37:29 PM

i am so pissed i missed this band on tour. They are so under appreciated. i got to get baked with the band though. way to go guys fck promoters

anonymous 8/16/2013 9:40:18 PM

Ash using that daddy's money again to book large tours.

anonymous 8/16/2013 9:42:23 PM

I'm a bit offended I'm a bit offended I'm a bit offended I'm a bit offended I'm a bit offended I'm a bit offended I'm a bit offended I'm a bit offended I'm a bit offended I'm a bit offended I'm a bit offended I'm a bit offended I'm a bit offended I'm a bit offended I'm a bit offended

anonymous 8/17/2013 5:18:38 AM

that robin twerp bites ben weinmans style harder than ben weinmans dog biting his shirt. hes just pissed off because he cant get away with trying to copy dillinger at an earlier time slot

anonymous 8/17/2013 11:25:34 AM

gay band + gay club + gay tour + gay tour organizer= a bunch of gays.

marching_band_rules 8/17/2013 1:24:46 PM

stage diving is cool and this is gay

anonymous 8/18/2013 10:45:53 PM

I was anticipating stage dives during Terror at This Is Hardcore fest last year. At the same time though, someone dove and fell to the ground next to me. I bent over to pick them up and then turned back toward the stage just in time to catch an elbow to the nose, resulting in a broken nose, two black eyes, and missing the rest of Terror's set because the staff walked me outside so I wouldn't bleed on everything and everyone.

anonymous 8/18/2013 10:46:31 PM

^So there. That's my anecdotal rebuttal to Robin Staps' risk probabilities that he pulled out of his ass. If he'd like to provide more concrete figures, I'd be happy to tutor him on statistics and multivariate calculus and why his match sucks.

anonymous 8/19/2013 12:19:27 AM

^^ Yo boy, you obv jus not hard enuff to be in the pit with dat extreme music. Yo we keep this mmusic shit hardcore

anonymous 9/16/2013 10:45:09 AM

these guys are buttgays